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Messages - Too shy

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Thanks for providing the link, SON. I'm sure David and Philip would be appreciative. What we have to take into account is that the local historians who provide us with this type of publication (think also of Mike Pavasovic), love their topics and spend hours (sometimes years) researching for their final product. It goes without saying that there may (probably will?) come a time when first hand knowledge of local history (having lived through it) will not be so readily apparent as the "Old Brigade" pop off to meet their maker (think no further than outside toilets, the nit nurse, rag and bone men, raking out the coal fire after the night before - the list is endless). Let's use and appreciate their talents while we've still got them with us.

If it wasnít for the dreadful traffic Iíd give it a go but the last time I drove to Ashton (from Lytham) 3 years ago the M61 junction with the M60 was gridlocked and together with a 50mph speed limit on th M60, I was almost late for a funeral at Dukinfield. I donít think I could face that frustration again. Anyway the last time I set foot in Ashton was 1986 so my passport will have expired.

I appreciate your travel difficulties, SON. I came back from Fleetwood a couple of days ago in a complete downpour plus traffic jams after a three car smash. Why not try Hoyd Publishing?

Memory Lane / Re: Billy Liar at Ashton Palais
« on: August 19, 2019, 02:49 PM »
I was always amazed that the poprietors of Ashton Palais were able to "get away with it." To me, I always recalled it being, certainly on the outside, a wooden structure where the rudimentary panelling was creasoted in a fairly basic/rough and ready kind of way. I find it hard to believe that the whole jing bang didn't go up in flames years before it actually closed. In this age of health and safety awareness, I don't think it would have made the grade.

You could do worse than getting yourself down to the book-signing, SON (that's providing you live in this area). Also, I believe Hoyd Publishing handle a lot of their output.

Memory Lane / Re: Billy Liar at Ashton Palais
« on: August 15, 2019, 11:17 AM »
Thanks daftjack - was that really the interior of Palais? I never went inside so I don't know. The closest I ever got was looking at the building from Old Street. I wonder why they chose Ashton from the many dance halls that must have existed n that era.

I think the filming was largely centred in Bradford - certainly the town centre shots where Billy is out and about with his chum in the lunch hour (and including the stone steps leading down to the undertaker's firm where he is employed) and also the streets leading up to Billy's house. However, they also filmed on the Lancashire side of the Pennines - Julie Christie is seen promenading in Piccadilly Gardens in Manchester at one stage and, of course, the football ground is Old Trafford. Why the Palais? It was a typical northern dance hall so must have fitted the bill.

PS The only person I can recall who was included in the Palais filming was a young chap called Barry Wood who lived in Dukinfield not far from me. I spotted him in the You Tube clip.

I can't imagine that Martin would mind me publicising this event. Our local history writing brothers, David and Philip Williams, will be launching their latest book on Saturday 24th August 2019. The title of their latest creation is, "For Your Delectation and Delight" and will be a history of the music halls and theatres of Ashton-under-Lyne from the early 1800s up to the closure of Tameside Hippodrome in 2008. The event will be held inside Ashton Market Hall, by invitation between 11-30 am and 1-30 pm, and from 1-30 pm onwards, a public book signing at the Community Stall within the Market Hall. I believe the book will be on sale at £15.00 per copy. The Williams brothers have produced some quality titles over the years and have contributed tremendously to keeping history alive in and around Ashton-under-Lyne. They are well deserving of our appreciation and support.

Memory Lane / Billy Liar at Ashton Palais
« on: August 12, 2019, 06:05 PM »
The 1963 black and white film, Billy Liar, was shown on the retro TV channel, Talking Pictures, last night. Many of you will have seen it over the years as it appears to get a re-showing on TV every so often. Many of you, like me, will have seen it on its release in 1963. For you younger listeners, it starred the somewhat quirky, Tom Courtney and the delightful, Julie Christie (whose looks seemed rather ahead of their time). Most people probably wouldn't give it a glance now as it digs and delves into the somewhat erratic life of a Sixties dreamer - sadly set against the rather stark background of the basic lives that folk lived through in that era. Billy finds himself dodging BOTH girlfriends on his night out at the local dancehall - which just happens to be Ashton Palais (certainly the inside, although the outside is a Locarno somewhere or other). When I saw it at one of the Ashton cinemas (can't remember which one) someone would shout out, "Oh, look, there's me...oh, and there's our Harry etc" We were easily pleased.

General Discussion / Re: Martin.
« on: August 05, 2019, 04:59 PM »
Hi All, Hi Too Shy, Please try and keep up. When I say "The Ashton of my youth is gone forever, Crushed by the stupidity and short sightedness of the PC brigade". What I am actually saying is that Ashton is just a generic example (for me) of what has happened to towns all over Britain in the last 50 or 60 years due to the stupidity of the PC brigade.

There is no such thing as 'FREE SPEECH" in Britain anymore. Britain has been inundated with what someone termed "Snowflakes" and "Millenials" (apt description's) over the last how many years. These are mostly people who cannot think for themselves, have NO idea of their history and quite frankly are pretty self rightious. The one's who talk about "colonial Britian" and how terrible we were in the past to the 'natives' of other countries are the very worst of the bunch. They are so wrapped up in their own stupidity it is laughable.

Example: The millenials started a 'Rhodes must fall' movement to remove a statue of Cecil John Rhodes ( a dreaded Colonial) from UCT (University of Cape Town). After a great debate it was removed ( Which was wrong). The movement went further and demanded that the statue of Rhodes at Oriel College, Oxford be removed. After a vote was taken their request was denied and good old cecil is still there. (Thankfully).

NOW comes the punchline...The instigators of said movement gussed Oxford on CECIL JOHN RHODES scholerships. They could not see the hypocrisy of what they were doing. It made no difference to them that the man who was paying their education was the very same man they were trying to bring down. Luckily because people who can think said IF you remove his statue you will lose over 100 MILLION pounds in donations. The whole thing was dropped and the Millenials cried in their whatever they drink and it has been forgotten.

The PC Brigade are no different. Their Views, according to them, are the ONLY views that count and all must abide by them. Ashton (as I said) is not the Ashton of my youth. In my day a spade was called a spade and not a shovel (as the old saying goes). Today you are not ALLOWED to go against what the PC brigade deem to be proper. As most people on this site will know I have spent almost 50 years living in Various parts of Africa. When I mail friend's or SMS them it will go something like this " Hey my nigger, how goes it"? The reply will be along the lines of "Hey Oshilumbu (White man or foreigner) Bru, Wa lala po' (greetings). According to millenials and snowflakes this is a BIG No No. But that is how my friends and I talk. That will NEVER change.

I suppose what I am trying to say is rather obvious. I will NEVER be PC in this life or any other. I say and think what I wish (within reason). But nobody will ever tell me what I must say or think.
What annoys me the most in all of this is that the PC brigade think nothing of using foul language in front of their parents and children. I have seen it hundreds of times in Ashton, Oldham and Manchester it is disgusting. There is a word used in Africa (and I believe in the UK) that for me, sums up the majority of Millenials and snowflakes I have met, That word is SKANKY. I could not have coined it better myself.

Just a thought....


Your rudeness lets you down, Jack. You don't need to start any piece with, "Please try to and keep up." It smacks of arrogance.

General Discussion / Re: Martin.
« on: August 05, 2019, 10:12 AM »
Hi All Hi Bill , You would be wrong. I Live in 'Greater manchester' -  that would qualify as an oxymoron. (Uppermill to be exact for the last two years) I have seen with my own eyes what Ashton and surrounding areas have become.

No offence but it was never 'my Town'. I lived in Ashton but was born in Glasgow. I have always been a staunch Scotland supporter. The Ashton of my youth has gone forever. Crushed by the stupidity and short sightedness of the PC brigade. (as you say Bill) Today it is full of Kardashian clones and love island wannabe's.

Just a thought....


I struggle to make a link between the former Ashton and the PC brigade.

General Discussion / Re: Martin.
« on: August 03, 2019, 08:49 PM »
Hi All, I have to be honest and say for me, the Ashton Forum was and is, the best out there. Today we live in a country that Mary Whitehouse would be proud to call home. If you criticize a jew, you are an Anti Semite. If you criticize a Muslim you are islamaphobic. If you criticize someone from the LGBT community, cover your ears.

Today in Britain there is no such thing as free speech. As much a I detest all that America stand for, they at least have the 1st Amendment. We live in a country today that is not much different than the one that was envisioned by George Orwell all those years ago (with his thought police). If we get to the stage where we cannot talk about politics (or any other subject) due to it being considered 'controversial' on Forums like this, then the thought police have won, and it is time to take to the streets.

Every single person on earth is entitled to his/her/its opinion. Once we start to take that away then why do we need a brain? We might as well lay down and die (very much like the Ashton Forum).

Just a thought....


You're moaning again, Jack.

Talking about Ashton / Re: Stamford Park Conservatory
« on: July 30, 2019, 08:02 AM »
I don't know if you might have kept up with the ongoing debate on this one, Kiwi, but I'm not sure it's as straightforward as some critics are making out. When the conservatory was renovated (?) some years ago (1980s?), I believe that the original metal structure/framework was replaced by wood, and it's this wood which has deteriorated to such an extent that it has become unsafe. Presumably, if that is accurate, then the Council's job is to decide if they have sufficient funding to be able to do a straight swap (wood for wood). Back in the 1980s, presumably, local government had enough cash floating around to be able to fund projects like that but, seemingly, not so now.

An indicator that an issue like this might occur, is the state of the park generally. I haven't been in for a couple of years but it was looking rather "tatty" even then (lawns needing attention, flower borders similarly looking sparse and uninspiring). The main concern until now had been the removal of boats on the lake (the main complaint being the removal of the passenger boat, "Sunflower?") - yet again not enough funding. Also, staff numbers have been reduced, so you are asking perhaps four men to do the work which had previously, and over the years,  been done by nine or ten - the work just can't be done on such a meagre workforce.

Yes, a beautiful old building that has charmed and fascinated families of children and their parents for many generations but, if they can't find the money, they can't find the money. Perhaps another generous benefactor needs to be found. Ashton, and Stalybridge, like the surrounding towns, grew their wealth from massive industries which declined and has now almost totally disappeared. The cotton millowners and foundry owners, through their philanthropy, pumped money back into the towns - it was the nature of the times. I don't think those people are around any more - it just doesn't work like that in the modern era.

General Discussion / Re: The 'dreaded' BREXIT.......and beyond.
« on: July 28, 2019, 12:08 PM »
Hi All, Hi Too Shy, It is not moaning it is trying to let people know what is going on. Since most British people have no REAL idea. Just Yesterday I received mail from friends in America that are saying that Farage and his AMERICAN backers want to start a new lobby for Brexit! What have AMERICANS to do with OUR decisions on if we leave the EU or not. As For my MP Believe it or not I Have spoken to Her, Theresa May and several others in British politics to mention my fears. I have also spoken to several 'famous' politicians in America concerning my fears of a Trump take over of our country.
I have no doubt that people will laugh and say "it could never happen". Believe me with people like Farage, Trump and Johnson going full tilt anything is possible. The ONLY good thing that will come out of this is that Scotland, at long last, will achieve its longed for independence. The last referendum was 55% to 45% in favour of staying in the UK. With the EU referendum being 62% in favour of staying in the EU and only 38% against, I think the next referendum (concerning independence) will be completely different.

As to the comment about "moaning" the obvious and adult thing to do would be to NOT read my posts. Thereby alleviating YOUR having to post back complaining. That simple.

It's still moaning whether we read it or don't, Jack. You seem to have a need to want to lecture us. Now, where's that off switch?

Just a thought.....(but a good one)


General Discussion / Re: The 'dreaded' BREXIT.......and beyond.
« on: July 26, 2019, 10:42 AM »
Don't moan to us, Jack. Go and talk to your MP.

General Discussion / Re: The 'dreaded' BREXIT.......and beyond.
« on: July 03, 2019, 03:01 PM »
Good day Too shy, This is from the UK website. Quote: "The United Kingdom made its first application to join in 1961. It was quickly apparent that there was a danger of political isolation within Western Europe, Commonwealth states were rushing to do deals with the new bloc, and it had American support. This application was vetoed by the French Government in 1963 with a second application vetoed by the French again in 1967. It was only in 1969 that the green light was given to negotiations for British membership.

The United Kingdom joined the European Economic Community (as it then was) on 1 January 1973 with Denmark and Ireland. This proved controversial at the time. The Labour party initially sought renegotiation of membership. This was toned down to requiring a referendum on whether the United Kingdom should remain part of the Community. This referendum was duly held in 1975 with a 67% vote in favour of continued membership" End Quote.

When you apply to join an organisation four or five times in MY book that is fighting to get in. If you wish you can change the word fighting for desperate. If after three attempts you are told no but STILL keep trying, what would you call it?

Just a thought....


That's not fighting to get in, that's following the herd. Politicians are always fearful of being left behind/making the wrong choice/being out of favour/being the odd one out etc. It was inevitable that we would make further applications. I was around at that time and the British public weren't one bit interested in what went on in Europe. Take my word for it, we didn't fight.

General Discussion / Re: The 'dreaded' BREXIT.......and beyond.
« on: July 03, 2019, 11:32 AM »
Good day one and all, Very soon the UK will have to leave the EU. In the History of Britain this is probably one of the worst decision's it has ever made. (and believe me, there have been PLENTY). Having fought to get IN to the EU we are now fighting to get OUT. Whilst in the EU we were part of a BIG block of countries that represented Europe (or most of it) and could therefore fight to protect our trade and standards from other countries outside of Europe. We spoke with one big voice.

When we leave the EU all that will disappear. America will want a trade deal that benefits THEM. We WILL be forced to sell the NHS (irrespective of what the politicians say otherwise). We WILL have to lower our agricultural hygiene standards to let American foodstuffs into the country. We WILL be forced to back America in any wars that they might decide to start. All this WILL be the price we pay to do a deal with America.

If you look at what has happened over the last two and a half years with the Moron Trump in the oval office you will understand WHY we need to stay in the EU. America wants to dominate the 21st century as it did most of the 20the. It has threatened Turkey with sanctions if it buys the Russian S-400 Missile system. It wants Turkey to buy the American patriot. It has threatened India with the same sanctions for the same reason. It has threatened Europe not to be involved with the Nord stream 2 LNG project because it wants Europe to buy the more expensive American LNG. It has threatened China, Russia and the EU (including Britain) with sanctions if we do not follow their lead on Iran. (When Iran has stuck to the deal that was made and America did not). America will stop at nothing to destroy ANY country that threaten's its Hegemony and the US dollar. It did it to Libya when Qaddafi threatened to use other currency other than the dollar for its oil payments. It did the same thing to Iraq for the same reason. It has been trying for years to do the same thing to Venezuela also for the same reason. It has banned Huawei the Chinese telecom company because they are the world leaders in 5G technology and America are scared of being left behind. There are MANY more instance's of American bullying to force countries to buy their products. but you get the picture.

If ANYONE in the UK thinks that America is our 'friend' then they are living in a world of fantasy. I have always been, and will always be, a firm believer in 'balance'. If we do not have China and Russia to balance America power and its insatiable ambition to be 'THE' great world power, how much worse would the world be now? For anyone who thinks that China and Russia are NOT democratic PLEASE read the history of American involvement in South and Central America over the last 120+ years and you will see that because of American intervention and destabilisation in these countries (illegally) for the benefit of American politics and Business interest's is the reason that they have an 'immigration crisis' on their Southern border. It is the logical outcome of 120+ years of America's vision of how South and Central America SHOULD look.

So when you see all this Rubbish put about by Johnson, Farage and all the other politicians in the UK who kowtow to America please remember what I have said. In the UK we were strong and part of a group. When we leave we Will become a Minnow, nothing more. To think otherwise is folly.

Just a thought...


You are wrong there, Jack. The UK did not "fight" to get into the EU. Our government signed us into the Common Market (EEC) as it then was. Some years later, we had a referendum to decide whether or not we wanted to remain so, presumably, there were doubts even then. Let's be clear, we never "fought" to join anything. Incidentally, Charles de Gaulle did his level best to prevent us from joining in the first place. There's gratitude for you - after coming to their aid in two world wars.

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