Ashton-under-Lyne Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: greeny on August 05, 2014, 01:08 PM

Title: SCOTLAND
Post by: greeny on August 05, 2014, 01:08 PM
HI no long now before the scotish independence vote , i think it will be a bad thing for all of the u k if scotland become independent from the rest of us , i say keep the great in great britain and that means scotland , what does all our ex pats, and where you live in the uk think about home rule , should lancashire become independent from england  , i wonder what jack views are being a scot  ;D
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: jaywit on August 05, 2014, 01:48 PM
I seem to think Kiwi is, also?
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Martin on August 05, 2014, 02:04 PM
If Scotland votes to leave, perhaps Scotland Street should be re-named?
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: KENNETHO on August 05, 2014, 10:05 PM
and Scotland yard? cheers kennetho
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Kiwi on August 06, 2014, 12:54 AM
I seem to think Kiwi is, also?
Salford born and Droylsden bred, short in t' leg and thick in t' head.  :)
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Denise on August 06, 2014, 04:45 AM
Near enough then, Kiwi!  Hahaha!!
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: herby on August 06, 2014, 08:25 AM
Hi
     What are they going to do when the oil runs out the Chinese are building ships now a lot cheaper than they can in Scotland
lots of luck to them anyway.  herby
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Son of Nomad on August 06, 2014, 10:01 AM
HI no long now before the scotish independence vote , i think it will be a bad thing for all of the u k if scotland become independent from the rest of us , i say keep the great in great britain and that means scotland , what does all our ex pats, and where you live in the uk think about home rule , should lancashire become independent from england  , i wonder what jack views are being a scot  ;D

... and why stop there? Should Ashton be independent from Tameside, should Waterloo be independent from Ashton, should ... oh forget it!

Personally I would like Scotland to remain part of the UK but if they choose to separate themselves, I think they should be treated as a foreign country like France or Spain and not be given any of this 'special relationship' bull***t.
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Fudge on August 06, 2014, 10:33 AM
I have spoken to family and friends in Scotland and when I was away in June there were some Scots on the coach All say they want to remain in Great Briton and all there friends do so we will have to wait and see what the outcome will be. Hope it remains in Great Briton Fudge
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: daftjack on August 07, 2014, 08:19 AM
Hi All, Greetings from darkest Africa, My vote has been, and always, will be, a resounding YES, YES, YES. Scotland should be independant. I am only sorry that my HERO, and oldest and dearest friend, Brian 'Bengy' Barber, is mortal no more, then i would have someone who i could argue the point with, all day long.

Just a thought.........


Daftjack.  :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: greeny on August 07, 2014, 02:56 PM
hi the population of scotland is just over 5 millions you have to be over 18 to vote and it will only effect the people that live in scotland , there must be over  5 million  scots living in the rest of the uk that wont get a vote not counting the scots over seas , martin would william wallace way , would be ok for scotland street ;D
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Denise on August 07, 2014, 06:00 PM
Hi Greeny.  For this Independence referendum the voting age is 16.  It's 18 for all other elections. Wonder if that will make a difference?

By the way, Cameron is a Scottish name, from the Gaelic - 'cam' meaning bent/crooked, and 'sron' meaning nose!!! 😉
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: greeny on August 09, 2014, 02:23 PM
hi denise i dont think it will make a big difference , long as they keep exporting haggis and whiskey  :D and will i need a passport to go there and will the after re join the common market if they need to and will the scots down here get deported  :D
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Albert on August 09, 2014, 07:49 PM
Son of Nomad why not if Mossley can have its own council and parts of Oldham are putting signs up to say they have gone back to being in Yorkshire.Plus Too Shy was saying he still puts Cheshire on his letters and so do I . The councils in Scotland get more per head than our councils so we could be better off. 
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Joyce_in_Canada on August 09, 2014, 09:53 PM
Well, as far as I can determine, this Scottish "independence"  situation has been going on for centuries - back and forth, etc.,  and I think perhaps it's a pretty safe bet it will still be going on long after I'm gone.   If Scotland does become a separate entity - I wonder what the situation would be re the Royal family?  They have a big stake in that pie with their rather important estates where they visit fairly often.   And what about the Union Jack - and all the other connotations involved in being a separate country?   Where would all the money come from for them to be on their own?   Would they want their own brand of money?   :o

We've had about the same situation over here for years now, with Quebec wanting to be separate from the rest of Canada and have their own rules with everyone speaking only the French language,  etc.....however, they're not so happy about losing all that nice dollop of money they receive from the "Canadian" Federal Government to help their present Province of Quebec get by.  I believe they presently receive more than any other Province.   Also, the smart people of Quebec realize that English is the acknowledged business language everywhere else in the world!!   Every time there's a referendum, the vote to stay as one Canada always wins out because most people know which side of the bread the butter is on!!!   :)

Still, it will be interesting if nothing else to see what the mindset is of most of the Scots....Daftjack notwithstanding!!  No offence meant, Jack - hope all is well with you and your family.     :D

 
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: daftjack on August 10, 2014, 07:57 AM
Hi All, If you read the following:  http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/09/former-nhs-carers-intensify-strike-over-pay   does it not make you ashamed to be British?

Consecutive British Governments have sold Britain, willy nilly, till there is not much left for them to sell. Britain will soon be a nation of slaves, that have to keep fighting for a living wages, While our erstwhile Governments are laughing all the way to the proverbial bank. Yet Nero fiddles while Rome burns, why???

As to the Royal family, according to history, if Scotland became ( and I hope it will) Independent, The queen would become Queen of the Scots, through her direct line to James the 1st of England & VI of Scotland's Daughter, Elizabeth, (the Winter Queen) who married Fredrick the V. Their Grandson, became George the 1 of England.

As to the Monetary argument, I don't care if we have the pound, or a new currency, just so long as it is SCOTS.

I really cannot understand why English people want to be involved in a purely Scottish matter!!  It is a simple Question to the Scottish Electorate, do you, or do you not, want to be a part of Britain, and the answer, should, and will be, Scottish.


Just a thought........

Daftjack  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Denise on August 10, 2014, 10:45 AM
65% saying Yes, after recent Salmond v Darling TV debate.  If they'd been joined by Bliar and Brown, the English would have joined you in cheering for Scottish Independence!!
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Fudge on August 10, 2014, 11:03 AM
If Scotland vote yes we will need a new flag as the Union Jack Fudge
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Too shy on August 10, 2014, 11:59 AM
If nothing else, this issue has proved that it only takes half a dozen misguided folk to stir up the water and, before you know it, all the rest are at it. Where's the logic in saying that division will improve a faltering economy? The underlying factor here is that many Scots feel that they have been living under a non-Scottish jackboot for three centuries. Where this belief comes from, heaven only knows as the evidence suggests that we've been getting on very well indeed. The remainder have seen the benefit in being part of a united island where its people have stuck together through thick and thin (not to mention standing shoulder to shoulder at times of conflict) and built a nation that is held in high regard throughout the rest of the world (people are still coming here in droves aren't they?) Sadly, Alex Salmond and his cohort want to dismantle everything that has been created between Scotland and the rest of us for what would appear to be nothing more that selfish greed. Do they really think that running off with their rights to offshore oil supplies will solve all their financial problems? I would be saddened if the Scottish independence vote went in favour of separation as I believe that, collectively, we have so much to gain from being as we are. However, if the separation does come about, I think the Scots might expect a certain amount of backdraught from south of the border - and not all of it will smell sweet.
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Son of Nomad on August 10, 2014, 12:14 PM
Well said Too Shy. Alex Salmond and his lieutenant Nicola Sturgeon - fishy by name, fishy by policy.
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: daftjack on August 10, 2014, 02:56 PM
Hi All,
Quote
and built a nation that is held in high regard throughout the rest of the world
The only people who actually believe this, are the ones who live in England.

Everyone OUTSIDE the UK knows that England is the 51st state of the USA. to prove this point, name me a time in the last 50 years where Britain has been at odds with it's masters? I think you would be hard pushed to find one.

If England want Scotland to stay a part of the UK, let them devolve all matter's Scottish to Holyrood, as opposed to Westminster. let the Scots make their own rules, concerning anything Scottish. Then we could have a True Partnership. But I doubt very much that the English would allow that.

Just a thought.........


Daftjack  ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Too shy on August 10, 2014, 04:48 PM
Hi All,
Quote
and built a nation that is held in high regard throughout the rest of the world
The only people who actually believe this, are the ones who live in England.

Everyone OUTSIDE the UK knows that England is the 51st state of the USA. to prove this point, name me a time in the last 50 years where Britain has been at odds with it's masters? I think you would be hard pushed to find one.

If England want Scotland to stay a part of the UK, let them devolve all matter's Scottish to Holyrood, as opposed to Westminster. let the Scots make their own rules, concerning anything Scottish. Then we could have a True Partnership. But I doubt very much that the English would allow that.

Just a thought.........


Daftjack  ::) ::) ::)

Get real, Jack. The Westminster Parliament is the British Parliament (ie it embraces and serves the whole of the United Kingdom). While we're on the subject, England does not have its own Parliament and nowhere has it attempted to do so. Neither do the English make "all their own rules". You are reading something into this that just isn't there.
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: daftjack on August 10, 2014, 05:39 PM
Hi All, No Offence, But I think it is you who should 'get real'. Of course the Parliament is English, it could'nt be anything else.  Currently the United Kingdom is divided into 650 constituencies, with 533 in England, 40 in Wales, 59 in Scotland, and 18 in Northern Ireland. A little one sided, would'nt you say.

How could a population of around 5 million, ever have any real say against a population of around 55 million. It is, and always will be, an ENGLISH Parliament, irrespective of what you might call it, the British Parliament or otherwise, it will ALWAY's put England's needs first, (Maggie Thatcher was a good example of that) numbers don't lie.

As an example, If we had a vote on leaving the European union, and everyone in Scotland voted to stay in, but all those in England voted to leave, everyone in Scotland would just have to lump it. Please don't tell me that is democracy at work, when you have 55 million voting against 5 million, where is the democracy.


Just a thought.....

Daftjack.
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Too shy on August 10, 2014, 09:36 PM
Hi All, No Offence, But I think it is you who should 'get real'. Of course the Parliament is English, it could'nt be anything else.  Currently the United Kingdom is divided into 650 constituencies, with 533 in England, 40 in Wales, 59 in Scotland, and 18 in Northern Ireland. A little one sided, would'nt you say.

How could a population of around 5 million, ever have any real say against a population of around 55 million. It is, and always will be, an ENGLISH Parliament, irrespective of what you might call it, the British Parliament or otherwise, it will ALWAY's put England's needs first, (Maggie Thatcher was a good example of that) numbers don't lie.

As an example, If we had a vote on leaving the European union, and everyone in Scotland voted to stay in, but all those in England voted to leave, everyone in Scotland would just have to lump it. Please don't tell me that is democracy at work, when you have 55 million voting against 5 million, where is the democracy.


Just a thought.....

Daftjack.

At the risk of sounding like a cracked record

1. The fact of the matter is that it is a British Parliament and not an English Parliament - with no quibble from the English electorate.

2. As England has no Parliament, Members of Parliament from Scottish constituencies (and Welsh and Irish) are involved in determining the outcomes of "English" matters - with no quibble from the English electorate.

3. Many MPs from English constituencies are not English (ie. they are Scottish, Welsh or Irish in origin) - with no quibble from the English electorate.

4. What Margaret Thatcher has to do with this debate, heaven only knows.





Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: daftjack on August 11, 2014, 08:53 AM
Hi All, You talk about 'no quibble' from the English electorate. They have a majority of ten to one, in regard to what goes on in parliament, so logically, there never will be any quibble. If Scotland, Wales and Ireland voted together against anything happening in the UK they did not agree with, it would make no difference to the vote, the MAJORITY would still be English.

As to Maggie Thatcher, I use her as an example of someone who did not care what happened North of the Border, because England came first. When she was in power, we had a referendum in Scotland, concerning devolution, What did Maggie and her English cohorts do, come up with the rule, that if you DID'NT vote, it would be entered as a NO vote. Rules made in England, not Scotland.

Please, allow Scotland to Vote it's own future, without all the negative rhetoric coming out of England.


Just a thought......


Daftjack.  :o :o :o


Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Fudge on August 11, 2014, 10:38 AM
If you start to look around lots of us have Scotish blood in us. I have always been proud of the fact I have scotish ancesters. And now we can live in peace after years of the Scots and English fighting. hope what ever the outcome is we don't go back to our old ways. And remain civil to each other Fudge
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Too shy on August 11, 2014, 11:25 AM
You'll be happy when the votes have been cast then, Jack. Scotland is being allowed to vote for its own future, so you'll be happy with that. But there is no negative rhetoric coming out of the remainder of the United Kingdom (which you mistakenly refer to as England). However, there may be comments, either supportive or critical, about separation, coming out of the remainder of the United Kingdom. Surely, that would be expected.
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Martin on August 14, 2014, 05:44 PM
65% saying Yes, after recent Salmond v Darling TV debate.

I don't know where you got 65% from, Denise. There has never been a majority of Scots in favour of independence.

The most recent YouGov poll (7th Aug) according to the BBC website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides) shows
No - 55%
Yes - 35%
Don't know - 11%

(rounded up to nearest whole numbers)
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Albert on August 15, 2014, 08:13 PM
To daftjack I don't think we went in with the Yanks in Vietnam ??? Albert
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: daftjack on August 16, 2014, 08:07 AM
Hi All, Hi Albert, You are 100% right, we did not go into Vietnam, nor did we oppose it, We only had 'observers' there. I find it strange that Tony Abbot (Australian PM) has talks with Philip hammond, then a couple of day's later comes out with the following paragraph:
Quote
"I think that the people who would like to see the break-up of the United Kingdom are not the friends of justice, the friends of freedom, and the countries that would cheer at the prospect... are not the countries whose company one would like to keep."

What Countries do you think he would be talking of? Ireland? Bosnia? Ukraine?

Just a thought.......


Daftjack  :o :o :o




Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: greeny on August 16, 2014, 02:58 PM
hi a mate of mine got a place in scotland so he will get a vote but does not live there all the time i dont think it will make a great difference if they get the vote or not i dont think they will be any better off ,we wont be worse off this side of the boarder but who knows time will tell england might be the next for own rule along with ireland and wales  , its sounds to complicated to me so i would always vote for a UNITED KINGDOM  :)
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Son of Nomad on August 19, 2014, 10:12 AM
My gut feeling is that I really can't see the majority of Scots voting 'YES'. I watched quite a lot of the recent European Athletics Championships and there was obviously great cameraderie amongst the GB and NI athletes with an unprecedented haul of medals. I suspect that is the general feeling north of the border but if I'm wrong I shall eat my sporran.
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: greeny on September 11, 2014, 02:28 PM
hi i see the scotish flag along with the union jack and the england flag were flying over the town hall in ashton the voting day is getting near ,i have listened to both sides of the debates still think we should stick together but i am just a english with slight scotish decent  with no say  :)
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: herby on September 19, 2014, 08:04 AM
Hi
            Scotland is still British.    herby
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Fudge on September 19, 2014, 09:28 AM
I am so glad we are all remaining to gether it would have been very sad to have split up. Fudge
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: greeny on September 19, 2014, 10:15 AM
hi i glad i woke up this morning knowing that scotland will remain part of the united kingdom , the vote for independence as done more for scotland it will make it a lot stronger and it will help us english to it will help us to have more say where the money is spent and not just south of watford it will make british politics have more say with more regional issues and i hope it will make m ps accountable in representing us not just a bit of wind,when they want our vote , thank you scotland you have changed britain for the best
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Son of Nomad on September 19, 2014, 10:49 AM
I'm also glad that Gt. Britain will remain together. I must say that although I'm not a fan of Gordon Brown, he gave one of the best speeches I've ever heard the other day in favour of staying together. It will be interesting to see what concessions Westminster gives to Scotland as a 'reward' for this result.
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Too shy on September 20, 2014, 09:23 AM
hi i glad i woke up this morning knowing that scotland will remain part of the united kingdom , the vote for independence as done more for scotland it will make it a lot stronger and it will help us english to it will help us to have more say where the money is spent and not just south of watford it will make british politics have more say with more regional issues and i hope it will make m ps accountable in representing us not just a bit of wind,when they want our vote , thank you scotland you have changed britain for the best

Unfortunately, Greeny, the independence referendum became completely sidetracked by issues that were largely bi-products. Economics, state government and how it is administered, the quality of health care provision, these were all turned into a debate bordering on conspiracy theories. The accountabilty of MPs, what had that to do with a referendum about independence? - absolutely nothing, but it got wedged in there. Regional government? - just a sop. Successful government surely needs to be at the centre of any nation and not scattered about - that's what local government was set up to do.
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: greeny on September 20, 2014, 02:56 PM
hi with the vote on scotish independence 16 year old voted ,do you think the same will happen for next years general elections i hope the turn out will be as high, but i think not i think we have had enough of politics and false promises  :)
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Martin on September 20, 2014, 06:35 PM
If you didn't see it, this is where Gordon Brown "found his mojo" once again....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J39bBV7CBJk
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: daftjack on September 21, 2014, 11:27 AM
Hi All, What can i say!!!!!  WE'RE BOUGHT AND SOLD FOR ENGLISH GOLD. (Sorry Rabbie, you were so right.)

Darling, Brown, Blair............. The Campbells of the 21st Century.

Just a thought......

Daftjack.  >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Fudge on September 21, 2014, 07:46 PM
Love the Scots Daft Jack and I So so so glad we are staying together Fudge
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Kiwi on September 22, 2014, 04:02 AM
Hi All, What can i say!!!!!  WE'RE BOUGHT AND SOLD FOR ENGLISH GOLD. (Sorry Rabbie, you were so right.)

Darling, Brown, Blair............. The Campbells of the 21st Century.

Just a thought......

Daftjack.  >:( >:( >:( >:(

So, what's next ?, group hug or civil war ??  ;)
Title: Re: SCOTLAND
Post by: Son of Nomad on September 22, 2014, 09:25 AM
Would'n't you just know it. The parties are now squabbling over the 'concessions' promised as sweeteners to the Scots to stay loyal and nobody seems to be able to solve the problem of Scottish MPs voting on English issues. They remind me of a bunch of schoolkids instead of responsible adults.